[Camelot Unchained] Crafters, Assemble!


Cyrus has always been a straight up PvP guild. But what does that mean, exactly? Does it mean we spend every waking second of our game time in PvP lakes looking to gank someone, ignoring every other aspect of the game? Of course not. We see the value of participating in other aspects of the game as a way of improving our communications, skill rotations and team building - it's just that we take our accomplishments in PvP far more seriously than any other.


Oh great, Mark Jacobs is talking about crafting in Camelot Unchained again...

When I first heard of the scale of crafting in Camelot Unchained during the Kickstarter campaign I was a little frustrated. There had already been too much talk of lore (yawn), and now this crafting stuff was taking ages to get through, and all I wanted to hear about was the PvP mechanics. Dedicated crafter classes - what the hell?!! But since then my eyes have been opened, and I am fully on board the crafter hype train.

It's why we will fight.

In the previous MMOs Cyrus has played in, PvP gear has been nothing but a simple grind fest. Farm renown points, farm abyss points, farm battlegrounds, farm conquest points, etc. It's been basically the same thing every time, and has required absolutely no skill, no learning progression and no team work to achieve. We would proudly sit around our faction capitals sporting the best PvP gear in the game, and all we had to do to earn it was repeat the same activity over, and over, and over again.


Finally, I have full PvP gear. Now I can quit the game!

With a system as basic as this, could you really look at another player wearing elite PvP gear and think "Wow, he must be a great PvP player"? The gear was a mere time sink - an essential one for those who wanted to be competitive - but nothing more.

My gear has always been precious to me - I've worked hard to have the best PvP items, the top raid set, sometimes doing a ridiculous amount of work to earn that rare drop or complete that insane quest line. And it's not only for the extra 0.1% better stat, it's also for the prestige of owning the item. And as a guild leader I've felt that my own gear is a representation of the guild, of our accomplishments and our commitment to the game.

Enter Camelot Unchained and its crafting / economy system.

I didn't realise what a fan of Crafting in Camelot Unchained I was until we recruited our first crafter, @Hakugard. I always knew that crafting would be important for Camelot Unchained, but I hadn't been able to visualise it more than "we need crafters" and "we need to protect our supply chains". It's not an aspect of game play we've ever needed to focus on before, as crafting has always been a stepping stone to getting the better raid or PvP gear. But this is not the case in Camelot Unchained - the best gear IS crafted, and it will take a considerable team effort and co-ordination to achieve.

Crafting is the means by which we will show our worth as a guild. It's how we show that we can hold and mine The Depths, or whichever corner of the world has the best materials, and get them back securely to our base. It's how we will make every other player on the server wish they were in Cyrus because Cyrus members have the best gear! And it doesn't take away from our opportunity to PvP - it adds new options and dimensions to it.

Even the most battle-hardened PvPer would get bored attacking fortresses night after night, or running around from random fight to random fight. PvP needs a variety of objectives, and for the possibility of the unexpected to happen. Camelot Unchained is providing us with many tools to make this happen - and the mechanics of mining and crafting are a good example.

Cyrus will without doubt schedule dedicated sessions for gathering - and I can't wait! I imagine these nights starting off as less frantic than our fortress sieges as we scout for enemy players, locate the best ores to mine, and then secure an area on the map for our crafters. Groups split up in flanking positions just waiting for what may or may not try to sneak up on us. And knowing that our gathered items might be on the line if we are attacked adds some spice to the fight!


Gathering Expectations...


...vs Reality. "Join Cyrus", they said. "Mining will be fun", they said!

Similarly we will also have the option to go hunting for enemy crafters and gatherers - intercept their caravans, pillage their stocks and /lol at their sad sad corpses. Think of the drama! If we can create an uproar in Rift when there were no consequences to death, just imagine how people will react when the Cyrus train takes all their hard earned crafting mats again!

All this will be essential to gear up our own players, so every player should be equally invested in making sure our crafters get the supplies they need.

Cyrus is now keener than ever to build a strong crafting team in Camelot Unchained and give that team all the opportunity and support they need to have a significant influence on our realms economy. While I'm sure the top guilds on our server will want to be self-sufficient with regards to their crafting, Cyrus will aim to become the go-to guild for everyone else who isn't in a guild capable of securing a zone to mine the best ores and craft that epic sword!

"The concept that a masterful sword I forged would become a players most prized possession ingame gives me actual feels." - Hakugard

We all look for different 'hooks' in these games that keep us coming back again and again. For some it's the combat mechanics, for others it's the teamplay and community. As a guild leader I've always viewed the game as a toolbox which provides me with the things necessary to create the kind of organised, evolving, ever improving guild that keeps us all entertained. It's not enough to be the best, or to have the best gear, the maxed character or the active guild. For me it's about having a collective goal to work towards - as soon as a game fails to provide a goal, I lose interest.

I will spend hours outside of the game working on new plans, spreadsheets, guild rosters, stats, whatever I can to get the most out of our guild. Every player into the right group, every group with the right composition, each group with a clear strategy and how it all fits together to complete a guild objective. This is my passion, and when it comes together and I see the success of the guild, it's a truly great feeling.


Every breath you take... Every move you make...

Crafting is something we will have to plan for and organise, and it will be the responsibility of every guild member to make sure our crafters have all the tools and opportunities they need to make us the best gear. This means prioritising the gathering of resources as much as conquering an enemy fortress. If we focus on just one aspect and neglect the other, we may well run into problems in the future. Everything must be in balance.

We will also need a good amount of both patience and trust. We wont always be able to access the best materials, and even when we do the items will take a long time to craft. The only way to think of our gear progression is to look at the guild as a whole, and not just that of your own character. This is a team game, not a solo game - gearing up those you fight alongside is just as much of an upgrade as gearing yourself, and if the person next to you happens to get their gear before you this cannot become a source of resentment or jealousy.


Oh look, the guild leader has the first full set of gear... Seems legit!

This is also why stable guild groups will work well in Camelot Unchained. Knowing that the person you are helping to gear up will be regularly fighting alongside you helps with that sense of accomplishment in ensuring he has the best gear, and that his upgrades directly affect your own game. If you are constantly fighting alongside different players, then this attitude cannot be supported and members will naturally look to their own gear before that of others.

It is vital that both our leadership and our crafters must be trustworthy and transparent in how gear is distributed around the guild. And our crafters should be provided with the opportunity to play the market and not exclusively craft for the guild, however as with any player activity the guild must always take priority.

Ultimately, we are a PvP guild and like many aspects of the game, crafting is an essential tool we will use to make our PvP the strongest it can be.
 

Comments

#2
Here, here.

I've not been following the crafting side of the game much, to be fair I've been limiting my exposure to the hype around a lot of the games systems in order to avoid burnout and be genuinely surprised come launch time. However, it appears that crafting and all associated tasks surrounding it like mat runs, wagon defence etc will be critical to the guilds success.

I can honestly say some of the best fun I've had in game was during guild crafting runs, be they craft rifts in Rift or trade pack runs and looting in Archeage. I can't wait to see what CU has in store for us. I won't be a crafter myself but I do lend 100% of my support to the crafters and all related efforts when we are unleashed into Camelot.
 
#4
Sorry I hadn't updated my thread :p.
I started writing this the night you joined, but my man flu delayed everything. Don't worry though, you can do the more technical one when Mark releases his 70+ page crafting document! ;)
 
#6
Fair and equal distribution, yes please.


I left a guild in ToR over the Guild Leader and his raiding group not only best gearing themselves but then their alts on the efforts of our 'non-elite' raiding guilds finds/drops/components. We'd do all the raids, they'd take the rare stuff from our bank tab and never replace it. Totes Legit, didn't break the guild up in the end at ALL. (looks for her sarcasm font)

I adore pvp, but I also have a deep and unhealthy love of crafting so I get @Hakugard 's comment and haven't QUITE decided what craziness I'll be up to. I've some time though.
 
#7
I left a guild in ToR over the Guild Leader and his raiding group not only best gearing themselves but then their alts on the efforts of our 'non-elite' raiding guilds finds/drops/components. We'd do all the raids, they'd take the rare stuff from our bank tab and never replace it. Totes Legit, didn't break the guild up in the end at ALL. (looks for her sarcasm font)
Sounds like a shit guild then. I can't speak for PvP as I've never been in a Cyrus PvP guild but from previous experience loot priority should always go (MT>OT) = Healers in terms of loot priority then best upgrade for dps. I.e iLvl 150 should replace 120 over 140.

If you think of the whole groups gear as being an average item level, the upgrades or gear should be used to increase that overall average item level. At the end of the day, harder content, better stuff, quicker progression.

Alts are lowest priority unless the alt is a designated as a crafter or a standby tank/healer.

Although this system looks a lot more entertaining, the best gear being crafted should make for a very interesting mechanic. I can imagine sitting down with peoples loadouts and working out exactly how much material we need to make the upgrades and the number of upgrades we need.

4 Healers need frilly dresses - That's X amount of materials we need for a certain recipe.

I can see us having shopping lists made up prior to "gathering night"

P.S as a side note, I fucking LOVE gathering
 
#8
loot priority should always go (MT>OT) = Healers in terms of loot priority then best upgrade for dps. I.e iLvl 150 should replace 120 over 140.
Na, DKP 4 life. Always very fair and transparent and never leads to guild drama (borrows @Kassi's sarcasm font).

P.S as a side note, I fucking LOVE gathering
Ditto. Dunno if this is a Scottish thing or not but I've always had an affinity for the monotonous grind of farming nodes. Archeage was just cocaine covered cheesy wotsits for this kinda stuff. Like finding a perpetually respawning cave full of ore that I just couldn't leave. Ended up doing eight hours there before the russians caught me. Also setting alarms to go off at 4 am, to collect freshly ripened 'illegal' tree farms. Rock n Roll!
 
#9
Na, DKP 4 life. Always very fair and transparent and never leads to guild drama (borrows @Kassi's sarcasm font).



Ditto. Dunno if this is a Scottish thing or not but I've always had an affinity for the monotonous grind of farming nodes. Archeage was just cocaine covered cheesy wotsits for this kinda stuff. Like finding a perpetually respawning cave full of ore that I just couldn't leave. Ended up doing eight hours there before the russians caught me. Also setting alarms to go off at 4 am, to collect freshly ripened 'illegal' tree farms. Rock n Roll!

FUCK DKP . Played Vanilla through the start of BC with the same guild in WoW but also worked 40-45 hours a week so I didn't make every single raid and people would spite 'buy' things just to disenchant them in front of you.. Now that the GM let them do that at all said a lot about him as a person. Moved to a guild that used a modified DKP system where you couldn't bid unless NO ONE else needed the item and priority went to healers and tanks and was much happier. (though now that I can solo lvl 60 MC on my damn mage, I am amused we fought over that gear at all.

You can keep a copy of the sarcasm font. :) I will guiltily admit to even liking the damn farms in panda-land in WoW. Archage was awesome for that and omg the butthurt in global chat. Dat cookie run though....
 
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#10
DKP is a horrible system that rewards players for being in the guild longer with better gear than those who may be equally active but newer. I'll never accept it as a loot rule and I've abolished it in two WoW PvE raiding guilds so far.

You end up with a massive divide in terms of gearing and the newer players feeling like the have to wait their turn for everything.

... In terms of loot drama.

If someone thinks that they are entitled to more pixels than the person they're standing next to then that person is a fool. The raid group/PvP group is a single unit, regardless of the names at the side of the screen.

Although I can't see any of this being relevant in Camelot Unchained, we'll need to make everything and there's no bosses to kill so no RNG drops!

:D
 
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#11
I'm 'theorycrafting' here (see what i did there!) but CU seems to have mechanics that sort the most basic problem with RVR games... why bother PVPing anywhere other than the min/max place for gaining exp/rp/other currency. By integrating the requirement to craft and defend materials that are required to manufacture weapons, armour and materials to build structures from, you create 'battlegrounds' for RVR to occur in. That's what excites me about the crafting system that has been presented so far, the fact that non-crafters will need to be involved in the process of resource gathering on a guild and realm level to ensure the best goods are heading home. I'm hoping the beta will have some level of resource gathering and protection involved to start testing how this will work in reality. Will there be small scale battles occuring all across the realms to gain resources?

I can see on a daily basis having to decide whether to participate in keep/island take/defence RVR, resource gathering/protection/stealing RVR , delving into the depths... or any combination of the above!!
 
#12
Sounds like a shit guild then. I can't speak for PvP as I've never been in a Cyrus PvP guild but from previous experience loot priority should always go (MT>OT) = Healers in terms of loot priority then best upgrade for dps. I.e iLvl 150 should replace 120 over 140.

If you think of the whole groups gear as being an average item level, the upgrades or gear should be used to increase that overall average item level. At the end of the day, harder content, better stuff, quicker progression.

Alts are lowest priority unless the alt is a designated as a crafter or a standby tank/healer.

Although this system looks a lot more entertaining, the best gear being crafted should make for a very interesting mechanic. I can imagine sitting down with peoples loadouts and working out exactly how much material we need to make the upgrades and the number of upgrades we need.

4 Healers need frilly dresses - That's X amount of materials we need for a certain recipe.

I can see us having shopping lists made up prior to "gathering night"

P.S as a side note, I fucking LOVE gathering

It pretty much wasn't until our guild leader decided to merge us with another guild and we went from Shades of Serroth (we were chat trolls and assholes but not shit) and name changed us to Shades of the Eternal Void. (don't ask me, I didn't get a vote) The GM got his 'Top Notch' gear and raiding group and the rest of us sorta just became reagent gathering people. We were progressing literally right behind them in the raids and kept being told "once you beat (insert ToR raid here) on Nightmare, you can have the reagents to make your better armor and each time we'd meet a goal, they'd raise the bar again and again, so we left. It's was really all we had left to do at that point.
 
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